Wizbang watch - I think I am owed an apology

Update at the bottom

Last week Paul at Wizbang posted again about the levee failures in New Orleans and the failures of the Army Corp of Engineers in preventing it. He made the claim that it was now a slam dunk that the ACE would be held responsible. I pointed out that he had left out a paragraph which changed the complexion of the article he was describing. Specifically:

According to records, Eustis Engineering provided the detailed analyses of the ability of soils along the path of the levee to withstand water pressure once the wall was built on top. The information was provided to Modjeski and Masters, the contractor that designed the wall for the corps. If the project followed normal procedures, the engineers with those firms were using design criteria spelled out in various corps handbooks. "You use the corps cookbook, and you usually have to work it out using corps (computer) programs," Prochaska said.

I also said that this didn't relieve the corps from liability but it did share the blame:

Now I am not saying this completely absolves the ACE. It doesn't, but it does spread the blame considerably. Paul's response to this was on the order of "Well they used the Corps guidelines the Corps is responsible". To that I say GIGO. If Eustis Engineering used bad samples / technique whatever for the soil analysis then the model using the ACE guidelines will be wrong. Should the ACE have provided more oversight? Probably, but if Eustis Engineering was purposefully cooking the books then I am not sure that it would have caught the error anyway. I am not accusing anyone of any wrong doing, just pointing out that all this did not happen in a vacuum and trying to lay all the blame on one agency is wrong. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Paul's response in the comments section was typical:

Geeze you are stupid.It never says they took the soil samples you nitwit. You assUmed that.Your comment does not "spread the blame," it makes you stupid.I know you are not an engineer but do you think reading would be too much to ask?Paul 12.01.05 - 6:16 pm #

Yesterday Paul posted again "Katrina - A Man Made Disaster" which linked to this article from the Times-Picayune. I would just like to pint to a couple paragraphs in the article:

With data from soil borings spaced at more than 300-foot intervals along the canals, engineers could develop only a fragmentary picture of what is underground. They were supposed to account for that uncertainty. That is typically done by raising the safety factor or by making conservative estimates of soil conditions.

Team Louisiana investigators said last week that based on new calculations, they think engineers working for contractors Eustis Engineering and Modjeski & Masters miscalculated the depths of the 17th Street Canal walls. The team has not yet released detailed findings. University of California engineers say the designers might not have accounted for storm surge's effects on the soil.

According to project and court documents, those designs were reviewed and approved by corps engineers.

Seems to be exactly what I said.

Another couple of paragraph of interest are:

While it's easy to second-guess after a disaster, outside engineers say the depth of the sheet pile foundation appears too shallow. A survey by Team Louisiana, the state-sponsored forensics group, found -- and the corps confirmed last week -- that the sheet pile depth was about 10 feet below sea level in the breached areas at both canals, much shallower than the 18.5 foot below-sea-level depth of the canals and 7 feet shorter than the corps thought.

Modjeski & Masters, the firm that designed the 17th Street canal wall, said last week it had initially recommended a 35-foot depth for the piling on the 17th Street Canal, then shortened it at the corps' behest, but the firm offered no documentation to back the claim.

My question in this are:

1. If the Corps requested that pilings be shortened, why did they think they were 7 feet longer than they are?

2. If the corps made a change to the work order where is the documentation?

Again I am not trying to absolve the ACE there is obviously blame there, I am trying to point out these failures did not occur in a vacuum.

As for that apology, I am sure it will come (about the same time monkeys fly out my butt).

Going through the comments at Wizbang today, here is Paul's latest:

Eustis Engineering (a local company) warned them many times they were screwing up and the Corps ignored them.

So how does that square with:

Team Louisiana investigators said last week that based on new calculations, they think engineers working for contractors Eustis Engineering and Modjeski & Masters miscalculated the depths of the 17th Street Canal walls. The team has not yet released detailed findings. University of California engineers say the designers might not have accounted for storm surge's effects on the soil.

from the same article that he based the rest of his post on? Unless of course he means for us to read his sentence as stating, Eustis Engineering warned the ACE that they (Eustis Engineering) were screwing up and the ACE said thats ok keep being incompetent.

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